Thanks for the heads up, JB. We'll be watching the comments here and hope everyone keeps it civil.

I am from Georgia and have to say the repubs there are extreme. It is always sad when someone dies. His politics were outre and there was no separation of church and state in his dogmatic approach to legislation. Everyone has a right to believe how they want, but the tendency allow religious beliefs to tinge the process is is not the American way. I feel for his family and friends and I am sure they will miss him.

Bobby Franklin was a man dedicated to the state of Georgia and his beliefs. We may not agree with everything that he stood for, but at least he stood for his beliefs and did so passionately. May he rest in peace.

It is not wrong to wish somebody dead if you truly believe that the person is evil. It is wrong to act upon that hatred as Hazel properly noted in the murders of Drs. Tiller and Slepian.

Folks, let's keep this civilized. I'm taking down comments that go beyond good taste.

I hope that when the Good Lord takes me there won't be so many people who will rejoice. Mr. Franklin must have done something wrong.

Those who do not understand our constitution and choose to deny anyone the rights conferred by it because of their personal beliefs are not unlike the Norway mass murderer.

I don't know this man and can only imagine that his extremist views came from what he undoubtedly saw as immorality and weakness taking over the country. While he may have been right about those, I cannot conscientiously defend any of his crazy legislative ideas. I guess he got called into the upper management office for a quick discussion on what being a proper Christian should look like.

Typical 21st century rethuglican, nothing more needs to be said.

Man was an evil moron. And since he supposedly believed in a God, just call it divine retribution for his evil beliefs and actions and call it a day. Mazel tov.

Spose his cholesterol was high

I just paid $22.87 for an iPad2-64GB and my girlfriend loves her Panasonic Lumix GF 1 Camera that we got for $38.76 there arriving tomorrow by UPS. I will never pay such expensive retail prices in stores again. Especially when I also sold a 40 inch LED TV to my boss for $675 which only cost me $62.81 to buy. Here is the website we use to get it all from, http://BuzzSave.com

We don't want to take comments down, but there is no place on this forum for personal attacks on anyone, regardless of what you think of him or what he did as a public official. Attack his politics and his positions if you choose, but as a human being that is strictly off-limits here.

No, this is not censorship; only governments can do that. This is about drawing a line regarding comments that go beyond the bounds of civil discourse. We want open debate to flourish here, but it does have parameters. Please try to understand that regardless of your views of Rep. Franklin.

Hey wendy Parker! why don't you stop you.BS and stop pretending to be civil while subliminally egging commentators on to generate more comments. We know you're all about the all mighty dollar. Isn't that what the Huffington Poat is all about? All the while pretending to be progressive. People get real!

Richard, I'm not trying to do that at all. We've had several comments here that we've had to take down, which is something we don't want to do. We've also let a lot of comments stand that are borderline.

Did he really say that tornado victims welcomed their demise so that they would garner FEMA money? That ranks up there with Rev. Farwell saying those who suffer catastrophe are being punished by the hand of God. Well they noted the man had severe chest pains, yet didn't seek preventive medical care; what a catastrophe.

"Hodges speculated that Franklin suffered a massive heart attack."

His beliefs broke his own heart.

Should heart attacks be criminalized, too?

dreams do come true

­While he may have been right about those, I cannot conscientiously defend any of his crazy legislative ideas. Watch - http://wp.me/1sMVj

Wow! I had heard just a bit about this man a few years ago and came across this story as I was surfing the net. Wow! While you 'never' wish for anyone's death, you don't really shed a tear when their personal day of justice arrives. His has come and gone but who will notice, who will learn from this example? I'm sure in his moment of death if he had time to recant his harsh and evil ways he did so. I'm sorry no one was there to hear it AKA, Lee Atwood, they might have learned something. Life is short and if you're not preaching love you should shut up.

This is what happens when you play God!

Though I do not celebrate the death of anyone, at least now that he is gone there will be one less crazy person trying to put their christian zealot ideas into law. I can have no respect for a person who would try to make miscarriages a police investigation. More and more right wing christian conservatives are trying to instill fear of sharia law on US citizens...but these people would like nothing better then forcing their christian beliefs on every US citizen

I feel bad for his family, not do much for him. From the sounds of it he was living alone. There is probably a reason for that. I believe any woman would have a hard time living with a man like him. I still not rejoice over someones death but for this one I shall not shed a tear.

We should remember, as vile and ignorant as Mr. Franklin was, he had a constituency that voted him into office. Sadly, replacing Franklin and his ideology won't be that difficult.

good riddance

God just aborted Mr. Franklin 56 years too late.

Stumbled on to this new item. Nice to see some folks in Georgia recognize a hateful bigot when they smell one.

Hey Ms. Parker! Let the people vent! Sounds like the lil peckerhead deserved it!

Buh bye Bobby!

More good material about what this man (to whom we owe civil discourse according to Ms. Parker): http://www.politicususa.com/en/for-rep-bobby-franklin-of-georgia-rape-isnt-a-crime

The fact that he has done what he has to the people that celebrate his death is telling of all involved. Yes he introduced legislation that cause harm. But to dance on a grave is a bit much. The dead can't hurt you anymore. Let take that fact and know that another fighter will take his place and prepare for that battle.

You are still misrepresenting what H.B. 1 is. It does NOT "criminalize" natural miscarriages. It only criminalizes all intentional abortions. Please get your facts straight.

Bobby has also been misrepresented regarding rape victims. Similarly, Bobby would never wish to add grief & trauma to these women's lives. His point was that in the wording of current law, it should say "accuser" rather than "victim" because before a trial occurs in any kind of possible crime, the courts must consider the person innocent until proven guilty. Using "victim" in the language assumes the accused person guilty before trial has occurred. Such language is unconstitutional.

Electra, if someone wants to harm you, your pet or your property, does the govt. have the right to protect you from that person?

Why are liberals so nasty and quick to characterize people they have never met? I knew Bobby Franklin, working side-by-side with him in business for more than three years. Sure - Bobby had beliefs that were not shared by everyone, but that is the nature of a free society (unlike one where liberals demand that we all think just like them). He never hid from his values or backtracked just to get votes. He was extremely pro-life and as a conservative Christian believed in the sanctity of life. He was not anti-woman; indeed he had a wife and daughters that he fiercely loved.

He wore his beliefs openly and the people of his district elected him overwhelmingly year after year. So if he was so insane, are you saying the majority of folks in his affluent East Cobb district that elected him for 14 years were insane as well? No - he represented their views, at least according to the election results. Bobby was true to his principles, something you never see in a politician today, even to the peril of his own ambitions having fought the higher-ups in his own party for things he believed in. For instance, he NEVER voted for a tax increase; what other politician can say that?

Again, people who did not know him want to characterize him by the fact he believed differently. Why can't folks just accept other people are going to believe differently without feeling the need to belittle them and, in the process, belittle themselves.

.

As for the pro-choicers who are so critical of Bobby, I have the feeling that most of them have likely had multiple abortions. He was not legislating your uterus, just trying to protect the little defenseless life that lived within it. As far as a "unwanted baby", my wife and I waited 12 years to adopt, finally getting a child in 2007. He is far from "unwanted"; indeed, we are likely better parents that any of the folks filled with hatred and vitrole on here. Pro-baby-killers use the rape and incest argument to avoid the truth; 99.6% of all abortions are the result of their poor lifestyle decisions (read: they are sluts). More than 41% of all abortions are the second or more abortion for that woman. Bobby wanted to protect that small life; women who have abortions to protect their loose lifestyle are no better than Casey Anthony.

Margerita your playing devils advocate it seem. Mr. Franklin might have been the wonderful person you knew and loved but he is also the person being despised on this forum. Here was a man who made it his goal to dictate HIS beliefs upon others without accepting conditions HE did not deem valid. The fact is he did attempt to make a woman WORST moments in life a crime. Which in my view is criminal in it's self. But I don't make the laws. I just voice my opinion, which many others are doing as well. And if he was a true believer he would have known " Judge not for ye will be judged in the manner of thyn judged and what measure ye meet it shall be measured to ye again". So if he really was doing Gods work (

Kafi, I ask the same question of you as I did of Electra: if someone wants to harm you, your pet or your property, does the govt. have the right to protect you from that person?

His acknowledgement of the Natural Law which tells us that each human being is endowed with equal rights to life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness, and his protection of those rights for all citizens was his job as a member of the House of Reps. It was not a matter of religious beliefs. The fact that he was a Christian is what empowered him to stand for what is right in the face of so much false accusation and misrepresentation. His Christian beliefs are not opposed or contrary to the Natural Law.

You know,Wendy that all fine and good but when a man courts hatred by making women out to be villians in a tragedy of nature then he deserves everything he gets. Miscarriage is a way nature corrects mistakes. Sometimes there is a mistake in transcription a fetus is destined to be devastated physically and mentally, nature then takes over and the fetus is naturally aborted. That this MAN, a single one to boot, feels he has a right to inspect a woman's gentalia and uterus after such an event goes beyond preverse into the realm of demonic. May he find his "just" reward in the afterlife.

MLHallmark, I do uderstand miscarriage is traumatic, especially multiple instances, & each situation is different - in some cases such reporting is impossible. But where it is possible, especially in a situation where the family can provide burial for the baby, the determination of cause of death is just a part of a society's protection of it's most vulnerable members - it is not anything personal directed toward the parents as accusation. It's the same as if your granddad died in his sleep at your home one day. Bobby's references to the coroner/ME calling for investigation would be in cases, once induced-abortion has been outlawed again, where there is highly probable cause to suspect that cause of death is due to self-induced abortion. Even now, self-induced abortion is illegal & a coroner must report such suspicion - just as he must do if he has reasonable cause to suspect you'd actually poisoned granddad. And believe me, had this bill passed, Bobby would have been vigilant in also ensuring that any such investigations be carried out with utmost sensitivity to the family and according to proper police procedure, following a report from the proper medical officials. He would not have been in favor of any unconstitutional invasions of home, etc. as he was a strict Constitutionalist. No bill can mandate rights - they can only mandate that rights be protected. .......

.....continued to MLHallmark...

About saving both lives: Only creation's Creator can mandate rights. This very creation speaks to every human heart in the Natural Law, which tell us that yes, both mom and baby have equal value as human persons and thus doc should all he can to save both, which is possible. Where it is not possible, then it is up to Mom & Dad (if Dad is still hubby) to decide if doc should save her life or baby's, if mom & baby are at equal risk; or doc should strive to save the person least at risk first.

....lastly, to MLHallmark....

The bill's language does not change medical terminology regarding preborn human persons. Look up the etymological roots of "fetus" & you'll see originally it was used the way this bill uses it. "The Latin word fetus (offspring; birth, bringing forth young; laying; fetus, fetus, young while still in the womb; fruit of plant; produce, crop; having newly brought forth, given birth, whelped; offspring, young; children; pregnant, breeding; fertile" (http://www.myetymology.com/latin/fetus.html) It's use in this bill in it's original meaning is for the purpose of simplifying our reference to human persons at all stages of pre-birth development. There is wide consensus in the medical field of human life beginning at conception (fertilization) - for example:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/prenatal-care/PR00112 refers to the baby as baby from fertilization, and..........(next post)

http://www.abortionfacts.com/online_books/love_them_both/why_cant_we_love_them_both_11.asp#When and where does fertilization occur?

In 1981 the U.S. Senate considered Senate Bill #158, the "Human Life Bill." Extensive hearings (8 days, 57 witnesses) were conducted by Senator John East. National & international authorities testified. We quote from the official Senate report, 97th Congress, S-158:

"Physicians, biologists, & other scientists agree that conception [they defined fertilization & conception to be the same] marks the beginning of the life of a human being — a being that is alive & is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings." Report, Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, 97th Congress, 1st Session 1981, p. 7 On pages 7-9, the report lists a "limited sample" of 13 medical textbooks, all of which state categorically that the life of an individual human begins at conception. Then, on pages 9-10, the report quotes several out-standing authorities who testified personally.......

.......

- Professor J. Lejeune, Paris, discoverer of the chromosome pattern of Down’s Syndrome: "Each individual has a very neat beginning, at conception."

- Professor W. Bowes, University of Colorado: Be-ginning of human life? — "at conception."

- Professor H. Gordon, Mayo Clinic: "It is an established fact that human life begins at conception."

- Professor M. Matthews-Roth, Harvard University: "It is scientifically correct to say that individual human life begins at conception."

MLHallmark - about other bills - please do your homework better. Those other laws do not use "victim" to refer to the accuser. If they did, he would've likewise addressed them.

Furthermore, since 1997 Bobby fought for, signed & supported ANY legislation that protected our Constitutional rights, no matter the subject. The media focused on the legislation he wrote regarding abortion and the one about not referring to an accuser as victim prior to trial because 1) they were sensitive subjects that would bring in the dollar for the media, and 2) no one else cared ENOUGH about women, children & families as Bobby did to year after year put forward legislation that would end the assault of the abortion industry on women, children and families. If you don't think it's an assault, then please review this website where women and men who've aborted their children share what it REALLY does to their lives afterward: http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org/

If YOU are against abortion - don't have one.
What's so complicated?

Dora, if someone wants to harm you, your pet or your property, does the govt. have the right to protect you from that person?

and Dora, do I, as your fellow human being not have a duty to care if I see someone about to harm you?

LOL, Dora - the Natural Law is written on the heart of every human being. If you spend time alone in quiet getting in touch with your heart, you will become aquainted with that Law. Who is the Creator of creation? What creation am I talking about? Those definitely are the most important questions any of us can ask. I'm referring to the creation we all live in, of which we are part. You will come to know Who its Creator is if you seek Him with a sincere heart. He made you, He loves you, and He wants to be in relationship with you. He is the The Father, Son & Holy Spirit Whom you can come to know by reading His Word in the Bible & joining with His family of believers. I'm praying for you. All this said....getting back to government in a Republic where people have many different religious beliefs or none at all, faith cannot be forced on anyone & it is wrong to do so. God therefore has revealed the basics of His Law in nature & in our very hearts if we listen honestly. The laws in our Republic are based on this Natural Law (google it for more info), because they are common to everyone no matter what religion each is. However, this nation was founded largely by Christians who knew that we need God's complete revelation in His Word as given to His Church to advise lawmakers when new questions come up, cuz sometimes it is difficult at first to see how Natural Law is applied in questions not yet dealt with. However, the Church does not control a Republic, just advises.

Nation was not founded by Christians.
Do you homework.
Most were agnostics FLEEING RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION.

You may sound all pious, but you are really quite a self-serving bigot.

Dora -
Most were Christians seeking religious freedom - the freedom to worship as their conscience compelled them, not as the King or Queen compelled them through fear of punishment.

Dora, abortion has at least 3 victims: 2 have their hearts broken, one has his/her heart stopped - check this out: http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org/ to see what I mean.

Margarita, a pro life source? Really? Do some women regret abortions? Absolutely. They do not speak for all women however. Saying that women are victimised by abortion is untrue and in fact infantilises women ('Oh! They don't know what they are doing, the MUST be protected from themselves!').

Women have been having abortion for as long as they have been giving birth. Approximately half of all abortion carried out worldwide are conducted in countries where abortion is criminalised, where women risk serious injury and even death to end unwanted pregnancies. It is a myth that the debate is legal abortion versus no abortion, the debate is legal versus illegal abortion. There is nothing 'pro life' about the latter.

Would I expect the government to protect autonomous individuals? Yes. AUTONOMOUS individuals, not foetuses biologically dependent on the bodies of women who do not want them there (and before it is said: I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that consent to sex is consent to pregnancy). By 'protecting' fetuses from abortion you actually DO victimise women.

They do not speak for these women:
http://www.imnotsorry.net/

Or the women that took part in this study:
http://women.webmd.com/news/20000822/study-says-most-women-dont-regret-abortion?page=2

Karma's a bitch. The good news is that the passing of this miscreant means there will be one less Republican vote in the 2012 election. Taking out Republicans one vote at a time .......

You think making abortions illegal will decrese the numbers of "self-induced abortions"? Are you crazy or hve you simply been brainwashed?

Let me say something. My father told me at a young age that he didn't like the necessity of abortions, his mother being an ordained minister. However, he said, the last thing he'd ever condone would be some man up in government, who had never lived the life of a young girl threatened with a life turned on its head, to tell her what to do with her own body. He doesn't have to explain it to her family, her coworkers, God forbid her school. He doesn't have to suffer the judgement and ridicule. He doesn't have to suffer the morning sickness, the growing belly, the aversion to foods, the fatigue. He doesn't have to suffer the labor pains, or the grief of watching something you can't care for being given away, never to be seen again. And no, that's not bc the woman didn't want a child, it was bc the woman could not take care of it as an infant needs to be. Before some man up in congress can tell me what to do with MY body, he'd better have a damn better understanding of everything I would have to go through to, as one right-wingist nut-job Christian (and I say nut-job bc not all Christians are less than intelligent) "make lemonade from lemons".

Futhermore, I am 10 weeks pregnant and having an abortion in 2 days. It's my first. I feel sorrow that I have end the POSSIBILITY of life, but it is the only viable option. If I had a child now, I would have two choices. Either take time off I can't afford (no healthcare, yay!) Or give it up for adoption. I know adoption is wonderful, but it's not for me. How could I carry some for 9 months and hand it off to a complete stranger? Not to mention, I'd still have to take a lot of time off work, unpaid mind you, and probably have a huge hospital bill to boot bc the social services' funds are being cut. And all this bc I had both a condom and the morning after pill fail. 1 in a million chance I hear. No, I'm not a slut, and I take offense to being called such. I took precautions and they didn't work out. Should I be subjecgated to the whims of some man who will never have to endure what I've endured for 2 months? Pshaw. Go preach to someone else, bc I'm not buying..

The biggest problem here is WENDY PARKER. The PATCH is available in many areas of the country. In lots of cities it is struggling -- big-time. It is marketed as a place where we can, in fact, comment on important matters of the day. Now, using no crude language or swear words about this no-talent politician, PARKER has decided SHE is the gatekeeper on what we can say. As long as no swear words are used, who is SHE to determine anything? Did SHE limit HIS attacks when he was alive? I'd bet SHE didn't. It's not our fault he died, rather it seems to be his own foolish way of life that finally caught up with him. Just because someone is dead does not mean we owe her/him anything. What do we owe Hitler, Lee Harvey Oswald (JFK's murderer), SIrhan Sirhan (RFK's murderer), or James Earl Ray (MLK's murderer) -- a bunch of warm pleasantries? You have a right to limit swear words, but not freedom of speech, MS. PARKER. You either want subscribers, readers and participants -- or not. You are not our mother, teacher, boss or any other type of supervisor. In fact, YOUR supervisor might want to reconsider you and your lack of contribution to the PATCH. There are way too many publications who respect opinions of its readers. The PATCH is merely one newsletter. No wonder it is struggling in so many markets. This is not a church or school publication. If it's too hot, get out of the kitchen. Perhaps if you were simply answering the phone, you wouldn't be so offended. BR.

Most news organizations and many other websites have a "terms of use" provision that applies to comments from readers. I will link to Patch's policy here and ask all readers to carefully read and follow the "Acceptable Use Policy" particulars. They are very similar to what you will find on most other news sites.

This has been my only objective in reminding readers about this and I regret not being clear about that earlier.

In order to ensure fair and civil discourse, and to create a vibrant online community that is welcoming to all points of view, we do reserve the right to ensure that our terms of use are being followed. Even about a very emotional topic, as this one clearly has been.

http://eastcobb.patch.com/terms

As a Patch columnist and reader, and also as a constituent of Mr. Franklin, I think I have a unique perspective.
So my comments: I'm sure he has a family grieving, and extend my condolences to them. As a constituent, of the many times I called or emailed his office to ask questions, to offer my views, or to get updates, I was never given the courtesy of a return call or email message. That's not a good way to play politics with the concerns of the district.

Kate, as much as I appreciate the offer, I will have to decline. It's my body, my life. I cannot have a child and live my life. This is a day and age when maternity leave is a thing of the past and honestly, I want to KEEP my first child. Besides, you should know, bc I had taken the morning after pill, I thought I was fine. I went 4 weeks, drinking, smoking, and I was continuing to take my medicines. I'm not going to bring a child into this world knowing full well that I have no desire for it, it would cause me pain, affect my job, and on top of all that, the likelihood of it having developmental problems being high. I'm sorry, but I cannot and will not knowingly subject a child to a life of diminished capacity, especially when it goes against my political and spiritual beliefs. Again, thank you, but no thank you.

Kate MacGregor, please don't be so creepy. Offering to adopt a child when (a) no one knows who you are, (b) it's pretty clear you'd be a lot like Sybil's mom, and (3) your radical extremist views would, quite simple, screw the kid up for the rest of his or her life. The kid would likely end up one of those "Church Pastor Convicted of Child Molestation--Says God will forgive him so, no biggie." Please, Ms. Kate MacGregor, go away.

Amanda, please look at these photos of babies around the age of your preborn baby - (these are not Christian sites):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_development#Week_8

http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/wrtk/develop/week8.shtm

There are many other such sites.

Oh, and Margarita, you're pretty creepy too. Does looking at such photos get you unnaturally excited? Do you spend hours searching the web to find as many as you can?

Also, Amanda, there are free pregnancy centers all around the state of GA - or whichever state you live in - that can help you in any way you need. They have helped many ladies complete school, stay at work, etc. during pregnancy & following birth. You are not alone. Our desire to help is not out of wanting to judge you but because we don't want you or your baby to suffer the horrible consequences of abortion. I know women who have had abortions, & despite what someone else posted above, all women ARE incredibly hurt by abortion - some are just able to stuff those feelings down for years, but believe me, they can't stuff it down forever & it affects their lives terribly. I don't know where you live, but if you call or google 1-800-395-HELP (4357) there are trained compassionate counselors available 24/7 who can direct you to a free pregnancy center in your area right now. Believe me, no pain/suffering you think having this child will cause you is worse than the pain & suffering abortion will cause you the rest of your life. Adoption is a wonderful option if you are unable to keep the baby because you give her & an adoptive family all the love in your heart. Also, don't underestimate the love available in your community to help you keep & raise your baby......

.....Amanda, the local pregnancy center will provide many free services as well as connect you with free or low-cost services & local people who can help you with finances, daycare, etc. Here in GA there are many of us who make an 18-year commitment to the moms & dads we help. Please reconsider & know you are cared about! Lots of folks are already praying for you! 1-800-395-HELP

Kate MacGregor, seems like you are missing out on lots of opportunities. If you really wanted to help poor, defenseless children, why not adopt several of the many thousands of children already born and are at this very moment either being completely ruined and abused by their so-called "parents" or withering away in a foster home wondering why no one ever wants them. Focusing on the unborn is an easy way of not putting your money where your mouth is, since your chances of adopting a child some born by unknown woman who is planning on aborting are nil.
Something else to think about for all you crazed anti-choice whackos who want to control the lives of other women: God can be considered the greatest abortionist of all, since nearly half of all fertilized egg fail to implant. Why would He allow a life to begin and then let it get flushed down the toilet?

Lastly, Amanda, even if your baby does have some effects from you drinking, smoking & taking meds, he/she can still live a life filled with love & a joy that is deeper than what most of us know about. Handicapped/disabled people who are loved & supported become beacons of light & hope in their communities because they find a strength and peace inside that we all strive for. Don't underestimate how God can turn what seems bad into tremendous good! :-) If you google what actually happens in an abortion, you'll know this is not the loving thing to do to your child --- they begin to feel pain at 8 weeks pregnant...and abortion is extremely violent to the baby. It can also harm you physically. (PS - I don't work for 1-800-395-HELP if it sounded that way - I just know they are great folks who have helped tons of Moms like you.)

Michael, God has the right to decide who lives and who dies. We do not.

Lots of children die of starvation around the world, but that does not give us the right to kill our 2-year olds when we get laid off from work or they just get too annoying for our comfort levels.

Michael, as a matter of fact we are doing that, thank you. I just placed a call with a woman who is fostering a 6-week-old baby but doesn't want to adopt him... WE will be thrilled to give this little one a loving home. We would adopt a dozen children if we could. I'm hoping we'll be able to adopt older siblings. They are often considered "unadoptable," but we would so gladly bring them into our family.

I can't claim to understand why God chooses to take some babies and not others, just as I don't claim to understand why He allows people to be murder victims. But I'm just a measly human, not the Creator of the universe and of all life. God creates life, so it's His prerogative to take it... not ours.

My goodness--how can people believe in a god who takes life and then hide behind the "I cannot know God's intentions."? So, on the one had we supposedly have a "loving god" but on the other we have a "killer god," whether it's abortion, starvation, murder, or whatever. I guess the world is full of people who will believe anything, whether it makes sense or not.

After reading comments on this site, I'm reminded of the late George Carlin's quote "Religion is brainwashing"

I have read every comment thus far. The only "arguements" that make any sense are the ones sited by "Margarita". Smart, educated girl!

Exactly WHO is talking about 2 years olds if they get laid off.
These 'analogies' are in la la land.

My point was to be neutral but sincere about my situation and why I felt the way I did, but obviously that won't do. I will never, ever, ever give my child up for adoption. If I bring something into this world, I will take care of it if I can, not hand it off to someone else, and if I do not have the means, I will take the necessary steps to not put myself in that position. Secondly, there has been no waivering of my intentions. I know all risks, I know the stories, I know the features my possible child has right now, and it doesn't matter to me. I would have done it at 6 weeks, when I first knew, but I couldn't. My father's insulin is more important to me than something that could, if necessary, be put off for a few more weeks.

As for the point Michael brought up, I stand with him. Save the children who are already born and suffering rather than fighting this losing battle!! Abortions are like alcohol. Some use it, some don't. Some think it's morally reprehensible, some praise it as nectar. It is all about what YOU believe. This is America, and as long as that is true, people can do with their bodies as they see fit: and yes, that includes my own. Simply bc I am a woman means some organism living inside me has more of a right to decide what I do, than me? If that were the case, we'd be arguing about the use of anti-biotics! Look, I wouldn't force you to have an abortion, and in the same turn, I expect people to keep their nose in their own business so that I may act according to my own conscience. What I choose to do is between me and my God. He gave me free will, and I will have an abortion bc I believe that is the right choice for ME. Maybe not for you, but for ME. If he doesn't like that, I'm going to Hell to pay for my sins, and my "child" will be in heaven having a better life than any human can dream of. I know all the arguments,for and against, and I am choosing, as a free American and with my God-given free will, to have an abortion. If you have a problem with that, take it up with Him. You can have no more to say to me.

Oh, and for the record, although my decision wouldn't change for a moment, I have reason to believe I'm having an unreleased miscarriage. You might call it stillborn. Body still acting pregnant, but the dr hasn't been able to detect a heartbeat at all, and the ultrasound shows nothing. Like I said, even if the pregnancy were going according to plan, my opinion and my decision would stay the same, but if it helps you sleep at night knowing you couldn't save the unsavable... There are terrible things in this world, yes, but bickering over who's right and who's wrong is just silly. Do unto others as you would like to be treated and judge not lest ye be judged. Words to live by my friends.

Dear Amanda,
I have a question for you, take this scenario, let's say you have another child say around 2, you find out your pregnant with another child. Things aren't great your husband has lost his job, your working but the pay isn't great, the benifits suck, and you can't afford to take time off from work. So you decide that having an abortion is the best thing to do. You go to the Dr and you explain everything to him, and he listens nodding his head in agreement. Then he says to you... Amanda I understand completely what you are going through, I know how difficult it must be for you. So I have two choices for you. When you come tomorrow you can let me know which choice you want to go with. The first choice is you can abort your 10 wk old baby, who at ten wks The fingers and toes have separated and the tail has disappeared now. Your baby has taste and tooth buds at this point, which will continue to develop. The brain will continue to grow at an amazing rate and nearly a quarter of a million new neurons are produced every minute! The embryonic heart is completely developed. External genitalia are not apparent until next week, but the testes in baby boys will already be producing testosterone.
Or you can kill your 2 year old baby by a lethal injection, either way your problem is solved. Come back in the morning and you can let me know what you decide.
Did you make your choice yet?

I know that this is not your situation now but if it were could you choose between the two? The point is whether the baby is in your womb or outside the womb it is still life. For either one their life is in your hands, the choice is yours, as neither one of them can make the choice themselves.
You say do unto others as you would like to be treated, well then I am doing what I wish someone had done for me. Reaching out to someone who is in the same position I was in 37 yrs ago. I was a teenager, 16 yrs old, I went to my parents, who I trusted the most, who I thought would guide me to make the right decision. I mean come on they were my parents. After discussing it we decided that an abortion was the best solution, that way I could continue my education, and continue to have a normal teenage life. I will never forget it. We drove into NY where I stayed overnight in a hospital. They explained that they had to insert seaweed sticks into the cervix to open it up, they explained that I would feel cramping, like having a period almost. then in the morning they would check me again to see if I had dialated enough. Then they would take me in, I would be sedated enough that I would not feel anything but still conscious, like being in la la land they said.

You had a bad experience Meg, but your experience is not that of every other woman. It's up to each individual to define their own, and not have it defined for them.

I know for those against abortion it's all about the fetus and it doesn't matter whether it's inside or outside the womb, never mind the scale of the difference. Inside the womb and it is another person's body, outside the womb and it is an individual in it's own right, biologically independent. A woman's womb is still HER womb if there is a fetus inside it. It is still HER body, her 'jurisdiction' if you like, and she still has autonomy. Her wishes are all that matter (this holds true whether abortion is legal or criminalised).

As for religious arguments - well I'm an atheist so they go right over my head. I will say however, in response to 'God says who lives and dies' (to paraphrase) - looked around you recently?

Did you only read the entry before yours? How humorous this has become a free-for-all for the same overused, hackneyed, choice or anti-abortion (religious) perspectives. Those comments may well be valid, but why not express them in a venue relative to an appropriate news article? It started with comments about a very misguided politician who abused the office to which he was elected. Indeed, it was a legitimate political opinion-generator. Anyone not wanting an abortion should certainly not have one. Now, back to the political discussion ... BR.

I remember the bright lights of the operating room, I can remember hearing the nurses and Dr's chatting away, laughing, I remember the sound of the machine. Then the next thing I remember is them getting me up and saying it was time to go home. Not a word was spoken the whole ride, and it was never mentioned again.
My life continued but my behavior had changed. My self esteem, I had none, I felt worthless, I felt like I didn't fit anywhere, I started hanging out with the wrong kind of people, skipping school, drinking, smoking pot, and having sex. This was the only way at the time that I felt like I belonged somewhere. Eventually I quit school. I met my husband in 1976 the year I was suppose to graduate. I know God put him in my life to let me know how special I was. He got me to go back and get my GED. He also was the only person I ever told that I had an abortion, and he still loved me. I still never talked of it and still kept feelings I didn't even know I had shoved in the back of my head somewhere.

The first time I ever felt the pain and the guilt of my abortion was not till I got pregnant with my second child (which at the time to me was my first) I miscarried at 10 wks. I was devastated, I swore God was punishing me for what I did. And what made it harder was the girl I worked with was also pregnant, so it was very difficult to watch her tummy grow knowing that our babies would have been born at the same time. I would cry myself to sleep, and I prayed (finally) and asked God to forgive me, to please give me a second chance. A few months later I was pregnant again. This time I started bleeding around the 8-9th week. I started freaking out, but instead of blaming God or feeling like he was punishing me, I prayed, I taped a cross to my stomach, and I put my trust in him. In October of '83 I had a beautiful baby girl. My faith journey had just begun. It took many years for it to build, for me to finally realize God really is the one in control. And even though I felt the pain and the guilt of having an abortion, I still felt it was the womans choice. That is because I was truly unaware of what an abortion actually does, and because I really did not think of it being a life while inside my womb. I worked in a radiology department so there would be girls that were sent over from the clinic to have an ultrasound to determine how many weeks they were, so the Dr could determine what kind of abortion was going to be done. The technician was advised not to show the ultrasound to

Sasha, from the moment of conception the person in the mother's womb has his/her own completely separate DNA, completely different from Mom's DNA. Logic & science tells us that two beings having completely different DNA are not the same being. The person in the mother's womb is not part of her body. Her womb is part of her body, but the baby is not. Why is it considered manslaughter if someone punches a pregnant woman in the tummy & causes the baby to die? Because our courts recognize that that little person is a separate person from the mother who has all the same autonomous rights to life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness as the mother does. You & I have all the same rights...but our rights have limits: my rights end at the point where they infringe on your rights. I cannot kill another person just because in some way I perceive they are blocking my pursuit of happiness. I only have the right to kill someone if they are about to kill me. No preborn baby is trying to kill anyone. (These are hypothetical logic arguments for anyone reading this in too literal a way) It's a sign of how crazy & selfish we have become as a society that our courts & lawmakers recognize the accidental killing of a preborn baby as manslaughter but permit the intentional killing of a preborn baby by a "doctor".

Furthermore, it is illegal for moms to kill their own preborn babies (which is a good thing), but also shows that our society has gone mad when it says that mom can pay a "doctor" to kill her baby for her. Are you getting the picture it's about money?

Sasha, your home is your private property & you have sovereign power there. However, it is not okay for you to abuse or kill your children in your home. It's not even okay for you to abuse your pets in your home. So although you have sovereignty over your womb it is not okay for you to abuse or kill the person living there. See my post above quoting multiple scientific & medical sources that human life begins at conception. It is absolutely NOT a legal fact that personhood is endowed at birth. If that were the case a person who accidentally kills a pre-born child would not be charged w/ manslaughter. Furthermore, no govt can "endow" or take away personhood. They tried that with African Americans - to say that Black people are not persons. But the 13th & 14th Amendments corrected that abuse of power. Govts can only recognize & protect personhood.

Newborn babies are 100% dependent upon using your resources to sustain themselves, so is it therefore ok to kill a newborn baby? Quadriplegics are dependent upon others - can we kill them? The madness in society I referred to is the total contradictory nature of abortion being legalized, while all other cases of killing preborn & born children are illegal: it basically says that our govt. approves the killing of innocent human persons in cases where they present an inconvenience to someone else. This is exactly the illogic used in slavery & all the abuses that went along with it. Ask yourself: what group of persons is our govt going to decide next can be killed when they become "inconvenient"?

Sasha, "what isn't about money?" Love.

Dig a little....why is the state funding abortions? Eugenics. Google Margaret Sanger.

Meg...thanks so much for your courage in sharing your story. I love you!

the girls, as they didn't want them to become attached. Well hello why would you not want them to become attached. I think the answer is obvious.
It was not until I was pregnant again with my 4th child that I had an ephiphany. I had talked with my friend who was an ultrasound tech. I told her I thought I was pregnant because I had a feeling, even though I had not missed a period yet I had an intuition that I was. She said let's go back and do an ultrasound, I was like, you can't see anything yet, don't I need to wait till I miss my period and have bloodwork done. She said just come back and we will look. I was amazed, on the screen was this little spot maybe the size of a kidney bean, and actually shaped like a kidney bean. It had a black dot where the eye was.Then you could see two more very small dots where an arm and a leg were forming. Then she pointed out another small dot only this dot was blinking, Oh my God I said is that the heartbeat? I could not believe my eyes, this was only 3 weeks almost four since I concieved and there is a heartbeat. I started to cry as I realized life really does begin at conception.

This is how God planned it, he created the way a life was to be formed. There is no science to it. Those little sperms that don't make it to the egg weren't meant to be, they are not wasted they never were "Life" begins at conception, conception is when the sperm fertilizes the egg. If the egg is not fertilized then there is no life. When life does begin it is because that baby was meant to be. If the mother miscarries then that was meant to be, it is God's will. We should not question, as he is the one in control, it is his plan not ours. Show me where God says I made you so you could choose to destroy the life I have created.
I see that it is posible that you will miscarry. If so that will be God's choice.
Having sex was meant for two people who are married, for people who truly love each other. If you are sleeping with someone that you are not married to, then you are lying to them with your body. In sex the body is saying I give myself entirely to you. Theres nothing of me that I am not giving you. But if you are not married to them that's a lie. It's saying, I give you my body (but I won't give you myself). Or "I'm totally yours (until I'm totally someone else's). In sex the body makes a promise, even if you won't. If you or anyone for that matter are sexually active and you want to figure out if it's love apply the love test. Take the sexual part out of the relationship and live the virture of chasity. If you remove the lust you can see if there was any love to begin

If that's what you believe then fair enough, you're entitled to your views as I am entitled to my own (that, as you can probably tell, are radically different to yours). C'est la vie and all that. I won't preach that my truth is also yours, so do me the same courtesy.

Sasha, you frighten me. I'm glad (I hope) you're not in govt. because under your ill-logic no one would be safe from tyrrany. To say that there is a difference or separation between human life and human personhood is the insane philosophy of tyrants. There is a difference between human genetic material and human life/personhood ---- if a human being dies, their body no longer has personhood ---- but as long as a human being is alive their personhood is inseparable. This notion of personhood being a separate reality from human life is a philosophical question that was injected into the public discussion by eugenicists who wished to justify genocide of those humans they felt were not as human as themselves. It is a false and illogical question. It is like asking, "does every living tree have treeness" simply by changing the word, "treeness" to some other word. It is stupid.

with. Don't be afraid to do this, because only when love is put to the test can it's real value be seen. Sex equals pregnancy/STD's and obviously even trying to prevent it sometimes doesn't work it is because God is in Control. That baby was meant to be.
I know I have gone on and on here, but I do hope you read it. I hope and I pray that you ask God to come into your life, He will only go to you if you ask, He does not force himself upon you. This is where he gives you free will, to choose to have him in your life, or choose to shut him out. The choice is yours.
If you do not miscarry and decide to abort my prayers will still be with and your baby. But know there is help no matter what you choose. These people writing back and forth to you aren't judging you, they are giving you facts, they are giving you the opportunity to learn all the facts before you make a choice you may regret. They do this because they know Jesus, they have excepted him as their saviour. They want to help you. As Christians we want to reach out to you, and yes we want you to choose life, but we do not judge, and we do not throw stones, not one of us has the right to do that. If you fall we will not just shove you away like a broken toy we will open our arms and love you, we will help you and ask the Lord to fix you. You will be in my prayers. If you need someone to talk to you are more than welcome to talk with me. May God be with you Amanda.

Furthermore, the eugenicists had to work to make abortion legal in order to bring slowly bring about a pardigm shift in society's thinking about human beings & their value. Their goal in this is to engrain in people's thinking that it is ok to treat some humans as if they have fewer rights than other humans. I can see from your replies that they have done quite well in your case. You are thinking exactly like a eugenicist. In the course of their social engineering, many of the wealthy white wonder folks whom the eugenicists hail as the only humans with a full set of rights will freely choose to go have an abortion, but Planned Parenthood has specifically targeted the low-income minority neighborhoods with lies for decades now by hiring preachers for their churches - that's all openly documented. They have to get all segments of society used to and ok with abortion (evn having abortions) in order to support the overall goal. If this sounds crazy to you, it IS, but it is also fact which you already stated you know all about.

Something else to think about my dear Michael Meloth, "God" is the Creator, "The Almighty," we play by His rules. If a fertilized egg doesn't implant then it is by "His" will and it wasn't meant to be. But if the egg is fertilized and does implant that is also because of His will, it is because the child was meant to be. He after all is our Creator he made us, He built us, He designed us. So if that fertilized egg does not implant then God has His reasons as to why. Who are you to question that? It is God's right to choose, the life cycle is his creation. Consider yourself lucky that he chose you, you could be swimming in a cesspool.
God didn't create abortion, he didn't create pain, he didn't create diseases, accidents, starvation or murder, or so on. This comes from humans from the beginning of His creation. He told us we could have had a beautiful life that He would take care of us if we so choose, but He warned us that if we ate of the fruit we would no longer have that privledge. So yes He gave us the right to choose. It was chosen for us by humans that there is sin, pain and suffering. God did not make that choice. But He still gives us the choice to accept Him, to know Him, to love Him, so that we can live with Him eternally in the end. He sent His only Son, in human form to show us how much He loves us, He gave us a second chance by His Son dying for our sins so that we could be forgiven.

Bobby Franklin's recent bill regarding prenatal murder was grossly mischaracterized by the media as possibly making some instances of miscarriage criminal. It would not have made any miscarriages criminal.

What it actually referred to was the practice of self-induced abortion (which is already illegal) and to the "abortion pill" distributed by Planned Parenthood & other abortionists which causes the abortion to occur at home, in the car, at work - wherever Mom might be!

It is highly dangerous as a Wikipedia article on Misoprostol details - possible uterine rupture & death. While that reaction is not common, there is no way to determine which women are susceptible to it.

Bobby was characterized by the media as uncaring towards women with his prenatal murder bill - at least he doesn't send them home to possibly bleed to death after taking $300-$800 from them. Nor does he lie to them by saying that killing their own child is going to solve their problems & make them feel happy.

... here is Wikipedia's article on Misoprostol (part 2 of the 2-part "Abortion Pill"): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misoprostol

....and this one details how Planned Parenthood is also going against FDA advise: http://www.sdrl.org/pdfs/webcamabortion.RU486.pdf

(not that the FDA is much better than Planned Parenthood when it comes to caring about women - the FDA rushed approval through even though there have been numerous deaths related to the abortion pill, RU486 - Mifepristone/Misoprostol-Cytotec. Just cuz it's legal & just cuz the FDA says it safe, doesn't mean it's ok or safe.)

Interesting....since posting here & on Facebook about the Wikipedia article on Misoprostol, it appears Wikipedia is about to change the paragraph on it's extreme dangers. Just in case it deletes or alters it, here's how that paragraph currently begins:
"When Cytotec first came on the market, the label listed a contraindication that it not be used on pregnant women. In August 2000, due to increase of "off label" usage, Searle (the manufacturer of Cytotec) distributed a letter warning against the use of misoprostol in pregnant women. In addition to citing the abortifacient nature of the drug, the letter cited reports of uterine rupture and death associated with using misoprostol to induce labor. All cervical ripening and induction agents can cause uterine hyperstimulation, which can negatively affect the blood supply to the fetus and increases the risk of complications such as uterine rupture."

There will always be pain and suffering, it is the choice we made, so now it is your choice you can either choose God as your creator, saviour, and except the fact that he is the one in the drivers seat. You could also stop blaming him for all the bad and be his hands, his feet, his eyes and go make a difference in the world instead of placing blame. Or you can choose to continue to blame God for all that is bad, after all it is easier to blame someone else for what is wrong then take the blame ourselves.

Amanda please go to U-tube and watch the silent scream.

Sasha, you said, "prior to abortion being made legal, fetuses weren't considered people". Really? Then why was it illegal?

Why did Hypocrates (of the Hypocratic Oath) tell doctors not to perform abortions? "I will never use [treatment] to injure or wrong. ... I will not give poison to anyone though asked. ... I will not give a pessary to a woman to cause abortion."

Sasha, there will always be crime of every sort, whether the govt makes certain criminal acts legal or illegal, but that does not make those criminal acts ok.

Here's your illogic: "A lot of people have convinced themselves that stealing is ok. Making stealing illegal has not stopped theft. Stealing will happen whether it's legal or illegal. It's not a matter of legal or illegal. We all have our own opinions. If you think stealing is wrong, then just don't steal. But if I think stealing is ok, then stay out of my business. Don't try to stop me from stealing from that person/store/etc."

Here's my logic: "Stealing is wrong whether it's legal or illegal. Making it illegal has not stopped theft from ever occuring. But it has reduced the ocurrences. Making it legal is betrayal of citizens by their govt and dereliction of the duty to protect citizens. However, making it illegal is not the sum total of a govt's and society's duty in regards to stealing. Along with that, people need to be encouraged in supporting one another to become self-sufficient and in educating on why stealing is wrong. Also, if I see someone about to steal from someone else, I have a duty to help the victim about to be robbed in whatever way I can."

I have attached the the HB 1 bill in pdf file to this article if anyone would like to read it.

There's also a better explanation of his views about miscarriage, abortion and HB 1 in the article "Bobby Franklin: His Political Legacy" also on Northeast Cobb Patch.

case in point the little boy who was just recently in the news having been locked in a cage and was beaten and slowly starved to death and no one even looked for him for 2 years after he was dead the little bits of writing he left behind wondering why no one loved him why he had to be in that cage why he had to be hungry all the time?????? year after year i read about stories like his. like mine was I am a Christian but so were the people who abused me. there is a very good reason why God commands us not to judge let we be judged. i feel joy that your children are wanted and loved but to take the position you have both taken when it comes to how other people than yourselves live their lives is no different than closing your eyes and ears to the screams of all of us who are forced into a living childhood nightmare some of us survive some of us do not do not be so quick to hand out judgement over situations you have no contact with. it is obscene to focus on the first 9 months and ignore the potential 50+ years that follow. every person who is anti choice should have to give 10% of their income to a fund that takes financial responsibility for children who are born because of their support for anti choice legislation only then does your position warrant any respect

Hi Brooke! I'm so sorry for your experiences and for the boy you mention. I wish I could've helped both you and him somehow. I can understand how it may seem like we are being judgemental, but really there is a difference between judging people and judging their actions. Meg & I are actually standing up against one of the most violent forms of child abuse. I have actually held little aborted babies in my hands who were killed right here in GA and the physical pain they endured is horrendous. It is not greater than your emotional (and physical?) pain, they are not more valuable than you, but the reason perhaps it seems we might focus more on them than on children already born is because the pre-born children have absolutely no protection from our govt., whereas at least child abuse is illegal and there are agencies set up to help prevent it. (These agencies in many areas definitely need reform.) Another reason is that when killing any group of innocent human beings becomes legal, especially children as in the case of abortion, it has a huge impact on society in that it makes people subconsciously value all human life less. The fact that our govt. allows the killing of preborn children has had the effect of causing a lot of people to value all children less and has increased child abuse. I hope I expressed that well.

....Brooke....It's not that we don't care equally about abused kids outside the womb, it's just that we're trying to help a group of abused kids who have no protection at all. I'm thankful that you are here - you are a precious gift to us all. I will pray much for you for healing of your horrible memories - I'm truly so sorry for what you've been through. Gotta go meet some folks - already late, so if you post again, I might not see it until Monday (no computer at home).

you expressed that very well. but it does not address my point. until your efforts on behalf of those like little Christian and so many like us who suffer in silence and darkness for years on end you just add to the problem not help to solve it. you can take an easy little test to see if your position is anything more than self-righteousness and misguided judgement. every time you logon to a computer to surf the web google for news reports on abused children. make yourself read very carefully every word. do that for a month. better yet do that for 6 months if you dare and see what you feel. when you intervene in the lives of others you take on a certain degree of responsibility for their situation. if you are prepared to vote laws in that force their existence then you had better put your money and time into making that existence better otherwise you are no different then the ones you claim to be so offended by. you can ignore what i'm saying all you want but if you do the hypocrisy marks you and taints every word you utter.

if you really believe in God than you should be able to trust in his wisdom and power to be able take care of and govern the lives of others. we live by example and walk by faith not by sight. i trust in his will to govern how others act. i can look, and recognize what others do as right or wrong for Gods will in my life but i have no right to force another to live as i do. my ancestors (blood family) came here in the 1620s to leave behind imposed religious beliefs. they fought and died for the right and freedom to worship and live as lead to do. God gave us the gift of free will and no human being has the right to insert themselves into that. in the 1930s the nazis first outlawed abortion then forced women to have babies for the state. proving that the reason doesn't justify the method. to take away the freedom to choose either to or not to complete a pregnancy is saying you know better than God what people other than yourself should do and history proves that playing God over others gets us no place good.

and to Amanda i am so sad for the pain and turmoil of your situation. you certainly do not need strangers ganging up on you to give themselves an "oh look at me i saved a little baby today" pat on their own back which they can then disappear from and not have to live through any of the repercussions that follow. You are in my prayers. may God give you the wisdom and strength to do and handle what you must, whatever His will is for your life..

hi um,1st off, for those of you that call women who have abortions sluts and loose and condem them for thier choice, shut the heck up. you have no idea what you are talking about. iam living proof that having an abortion does not always cause emotional issues or prevent you from having kids, i had 4 daughters all healthy after i terminated my pregnancy. nor have i had any emotional issues. 2nd, it is a personal choice made of free will and for personal reasons. screw you for saying it is wrong or murder. go save the kids that are living and need some one. Amber hun, i have been wher eyou are and know exactly what you are going through,. Im a devote Catholic who had both condom and my pill fail. i spoke to my parish priest and he counciled me. I made my choice in good faith and am ok with it. I know how angering it is to hear people say the things the idological,moronic, jerks are saying, but Amber,if this is what YOU want and what YOU are good with,please do what is right for YOU!!!!!. feel free to msg me and we can chat. i have your back 100% hun. If i could i would go with to hold your hand or to be there when your done. There is a good outcome, I have a thriving transportation bussiness, 4 adorable and brilliant daughters and a great marriage. So trust me when i tell you that if you ar at peace with it,then it will be ok. i suggest a journal to offer additional help. www.livejournal.com is great.

hugs, Chelle

Brooke, I agree with you that our concern for anyone shouldn't just be for a day or a moment. That's why when my friends and I reach out to Moms in crisis we make a lifelong commitment to them in our hearts. We have baby showers for them and become lifelong friends, contining to pray and help each other (my friends whom I met at an abortion clinic & who decided not to abort also help me - it's a mutual lifelong friendship now). They become family to us. Also, laws don't force existence - existence happens at conception. Only God has the right to decide when a person comes into existence and when to take that life away. He said, "Thou shalt not kill." So it's not our decision to make, even if we think we're doing it out of compassion. If that were the case, it would be ok for us to kill poor people, or handicapped people, etc. in order to end their suffering. That is making ourselves God and is a cop out from allowing ourselves to be instruments in helping them with their sufferings - exactly the point you were making. Killing someone out of "compassion" is no compassion at all.

again you are still not addressing my point. while i commend you for any unselfish efforts you make on behalf of others you still don't seem to understand that everything you say and believe revolves around YOUR religious convictions. YOURS!!!!! each person has the freedom to choose what religion, if any they commit to. whatever their beliefs may be , again if any. you say you believe in God, and i am assuming you are referring to the judeo-christian God of Abraham God of Issac in the king james bible, but true belief in God means you have faith in him to govern each person path you have no right to force anyone to believe what you do. I am sure we share some beliefs but the free will gift of God is sacrosanct. the moment you force you belief of life begins at conception you are assuming many minutia of details that unless you have several degrees in science it amounts to nothing more than a guess and not even an educated one at that. we have enter an era of science that may one day give us definitive answers but as long as we are not able to verify the exact detail of what fuses all required parts of sentient life we have to accept that there are things we humans just don't know. for instance an encephalitic baby born has no brain above the brain stem they do not have certain parts of the brain that handle certain functions. there are babies born with Pfeiffer syndrome

which has varying degrees of severity. some can survive some cannot some may survive birth but their brief life is a horrific situation that takes a great deal of grace for the families to come through. there are babies born with gender so ambiguous that it is not possible to say whether they are boys or girls. there are people born with a full set of reproductive organs of both sexes. there are so many aspects to "life" that many people haven't even a clue about (that is changing) that we cannot put ourselves in the shoes so to speak of every situation possible. therefore it is critical that we keep or laws of choice sacrosanct as well we are no where near advanced enough to make decisions by law that only those trained with the needed information should make. to quote a famous author "there is no relationship on earth quite like that of a woman and her unborn baby". these are delicate situations where issues both physical and non-physical are private matters for each woman to deal with. You are not God you are not qualified to judge any intimate details of another's choices. you don't have ever detail of their circumstances their mental state, etc. you tread on dangerous ground when you assume you know better than God what is right for another's life. that is playing God.

bottom line is this... i'm talking the law, you are arguing religion. your telling people if their beliefs aren't the same as yours, then THEY are wrong. I'm only saying that i respect your right to believe what you wish and act with regard to your body in line with that belief and that the law says we must all respect that right.

Brooke, you bring up God, law and science.

God: Thou shalt not kill.

Law: murder is illegal.

Human Life: See my posts above about scientific & medical consensus that human life begins at conception and remains human life regardless of handicaps, illnesses, deformities, etc. I'm sorry to say, your consent to question the existence of human life based on such factors as deformity, disease, etc., is a consent to the philosophy of Hitler. He began his campaign of eugenics by killing the mentally ill and others he deemed unworthy of existence due to handicaps of various type. Human life is human life, no matter what deformities, etc. may occur in some cases, and these persons are equally as valuable and deserving of love, respect and friendship as any other person. Again, to say that killing them and/or declaring them not really human in order to relieve their potential suffering is a false compassion, and in actuality a cop-out from the unselfish love such beautiful persons call forth from those who are blessed to know them.

Incidentally the correct translation is 'thou shalt not murder', not 'thou shalt not kill', the two are distinct. All murder is killing, but not all killing is murder (not that God seems particularly bothered about committing either, I may not be a Christian but I have read the bible. A real case of 'do as I say, not as I do').

Anyway, all this is trifling semantics. Suck it up Margarita, abortion has always happened, and will always happen. Glorify the fetus to high heaven indeed, it doesn't matter what YOUR opinion is; the only opinion that matters is that of the individual faced with an unwanted pregnancy.

Shame on you Margarita for not paying attention to what i was saying you seemed to be an intelligent but you are rapidly contradicting that notion and proving my point i NEVER that anyone is not worthy to be born i merely was pointing out that there are some many situations over which we as a society are in no position to dictate to each other the separation of church and state is vital to the survival of democracy and religion and life itself i have cousins who are missionaries in Africa and they see the tragic results every day of life with out our freedom if the only way you can communicate your beliefs is by a poor attempt at ignoring the truth in what i'm saying then you only serve to prove my point YOU are not qualified in ANY way to judge anothers choices when one group of people tries to legislate based on their particular RELIGIOUS beliefs you end up with chaos. in all you've said you still are ignoring what i'm saying what i'm saying is fact not conjecture not guesswork FACT. i feel sad for you and people who are of like mind because some of humanities worst experiences come from the best of intentions. which is why the very wise people who drafted our constitution made clear the absolute stance of church and state of course scientist don't all say the same thing same with doctors. because they make mistakes people die every day from.

a dear cousin of mine was severely disabled and lived to be 28 yrs old his life was precious and i miss him every day but his suffering was a private family situation and ALL decisions regarding his life and care were up to his parents they had to pay for his care and for 25 of those years my aunt tool primary care of him.she never wanted anyone else to be his primary caregiver but there came a time when she physically could not continue. your narrow view of what you think everyone should be capable of is very dangerous. i feel sad for anyone who does not have the perfection of strength you claim to have. be very careful ....life has a way of saying "ok you think you're so strong and so perfect in your belief here's a nice test for ya" some things in life boil down to a choice of what is less worse than something else. i am happy to engage in a democratic exchange of thought with you but if you keep ignoring what i'm saying then we will just have to agree to disagree

and by the way Margaritas opinion is just as important as mine or anyone else s which is kinda my point but her opinion should ONLY rule her own life and circumstances NEVER anyone else s.

Well, it has been several days since I could get on here (I don't have internet at home). There are a lot of comments to reply to. Work is very busy for me right now, so I gotta try to summarize my response to everyone. Bottom lines:

1) I do not believe in forcing my religious beliefs on anyone. That is wrong. Our country is a Republic and its Constitution is founded on the Natural Law. I am defending Natural Law, which as our Declaration of Independence states, absolutely guarantees the right to life to all, and that all are created equal. So, if you are a citizen of the U.S., you are bound by observance of the Natural Law whether you agree with it or not.

2) My religious beliefs are not in contradiction to the Natural Law. When I am speaking to someone who has brought up God, I will speak to them of God's Law, which says "Thou Shalt Not Kill." When I am speaking to someone who is an agnostic or atheist, I will speak of the Natural Law which tells us that it is wrong to kill an innocent human being. (It is not wrong to kill out of self-defense - that is not murder).

3) .....continued in next post...

....3) ) When I say that killing a handicapped, deformed or unwanted child (born/preborn) is not compasionate, one of you claims that I am imposing the assumption of strength of character on those who will be their care-takers. Not at all. If a care-giver lacks the ability for whatever reason, there are helps available in society - that person is not bound to go-it-alone. But the caregiver is not free to kill the person they are caring for.

4) Overpopulation is a myth promoted by eugenicists: http://www.pop.org/

5) It is not religious belief that human life starts at conception. It is scientific fact, for which plenty of scientific data exists. It is also common logic. Check out this webpage - scroll to the bottom for quotes from textbooks: http://www.abort73.com/abortion/medical_testimony/

6) hahahahhahhahhaha!!!! No Pope has okayed abortion anywhere. If your priest told you abortion is okay, he lied to you. I suspect the person who wrote claiming to be Catholic is a professional pro-abortion blogger, and it is pointless to argue with her, as she is not interested in hearing facts.

Bottom line is, people, use common sense. That's all it really takes. You are for some very scary reason trying to justify the killing of innocent human beings by ignoring the mountains of scientific and philosophical evidence of human life, and by using arguments that are very, very dangerous. Your line of thinking makes it ok to kill any human being whom others deem too burdensome. Again, in saying that, of course I have tons of compassion and understanding towards caregivers (I have been one) - but caregivers don't have to carry the weight all alone - there is plenty of help out there. The handicapped, deformed and those not "planned" by their parents are incredible gifts to the rest of us because they give whole communities the opportunity to grow in unselfish love and support. The problem is not the handicapped, deformed, "unwanted", poor, etc. - the problem is how isolationist our society has become. Caregivers are afraid to ask for the help that's there. The solution is not killing needy persons, the solution is for every part of society to start reaching out to each other more and making ourselves available to each other more.

In regards to miscarriage, I am so sorry to hear of this happening for anyone. Again, Bobby's law would not have set up invasive measures to investigate every miscarriage. All it called for was that if a coroner who did have the opportunity to assess a little one who died before birth, discovered evidence of self-induced abortion, then he would be bound to report this, as is already the case. Yes, that is repeating current law, but repeating current law is not in any way dangerous. It was repeated in Bobby's law to reaffirm its necessity because Planned Parenthood is giving out abortion pills like candy to young girls who come to their offices. Like one person so correctly said, the abortion pill is massively dangerous to these girls. Home abortions are becoming more & more common. Currently, the law is twisted such that Planned Parenthood can get away with giving girls a home-abortion-pill and not get prosecuted for self-induced abortion (which is currently illegal) because Planned Parenthood has them start the process at their office (it's a 2-pill, 2-3 day process). Bobby's bill was addressing the fact that once aborton is made illegal, most likely Planned Parenthood and abortion-doctors will continue to quietly give out these pills illegally. Bobby's bill, however would not aggressively try to investigate every miscarriage....there would have to be very substantial cause for such.

To the person who wrote about birth control being dangerous and/or faulty, you are absolutely right. Breast cancer, stroke, aneurisms have been linked over & over to the Pill. All forms are highly risky & not totally effective. I won't sell YOU short though by not talking about abstinence. YOU can honor yourself and your dignity by remaining abstinent. You are selling yourself way short. Thousands of young and middle-aged singles are choosing abstinence and there's lots of testimony & support on the web. Telling guys they have to get a vasectomy is still selling yourself short and it's not fair to them. Our bodies are made to say, "I give you my whole self" --- that means all of me for always ---- th eonly way to say that honestly with our bodies is in the context of marriage. This is not religion I'm talking here, but Natural Law. This is why people - even totally non-religious people - feel so violated and traumatized by sexual abuse, rape, etc. ---- because it is in our very bodies and our whole being that sex is an expression of committed giving & receiving. So don't settle for being less than who you are. Demand that guys respect you and give them the same respect. Is it always easy? No. Is getting up and going to work always easy? No. Is not eating that whole tub of Mayfield Moosetracks always easy? No. But that doesn't mean we're not capable of doing the stuff that makes us be our best & avoiding the stuff that cheapens us.

Have you ever wondered why people whose homes get broken into and have their valuables stolen often say, "I feel so violated." It's very similarto the feeling someone has after being sexually abused or when a sexually active partner abandons them. They feel stolen from. That's because sex says, "I give you all of me forever. I receive all of you forever." If sex happens without both the man's & the woman's heart intending those promises, then one is stealing from the other --- or both are stealing from each other. This is why even non-religious people are so affected by sex that happens in any other context. Even in marriage, sexual stealing can occur when one or the other is not intending with the heart those promises that the body is expressing.

To the person who said that since God allows miscarriages to occur, either preborn babies are not human, or this justifies our killing preborn babies also: Okay, so since God allows any human being of any age to die of any disease, accident, etc., does that mean that either they are not human or that we thus also have the right to kill any human of any age (apart from self-defense)? Of course not!! God is God, we are not. If my sister dies from cancer at 27, does that mean I have the right to kill my brother because I find him somehow burdensome at 25?

Listen to a Black person speaking about today's parallel to slavery: http://youtu.be/OoSYSqs8His

Margarita, i am saying that what you tout as being "natural law" is still a matter of opinion and you insult me when you say that i am advocating the killing of people who are born with severe problems, that is untrue i am merely pointing out that there is nothing that gives YOU the right to insert yourself or YOUR opinions into a private family situation. you are also very incorrect when you say that there are public programs to assist in the care of people. that all depends on where a person lives, and with so many money strapped states the situation is growing worse every day. scientist DO NOT agree on the exact moment that a pregnancy becomes viable and that is a fact. if you have to embellish or distort to try to make a point you do yourself and your opinions no good. i had a stroke at the age of 20 because i was on the pill. it was horrible situation. but getting pregnant at that time would have been far worse given our circumstances. i would still take the pill if i had to do it over again if all were the same. you cannot dictate these things in peoples lives and trying to relate this topic to slavery is totally inappropriate.

slavery involves single individual freedom and liberty not a symbiotic situation. if any woman chooses to complete a pregnancy that is her choice if she chooses not to that is also her choice to force anyone to become a parent is horrific most times for the child as well and i've got news for ya adoption doesn't terminate a parents status either so many women who have given up their rights never shake the psychological effects of giving birth. these issues are highly complex and unique to each situation.if you can't respect anothers right to choose that's you playing God

Brooke, Natural Law is not opinion.

Did you read my two posts in which I linked to many, many medical & scientific sources agreeing that A NEW INDIVIDUAL HUMAN LIFE begins at conception?

I'm done here. Spinning my wheels.

C-ya!

you are merely mentioning ones who agree with your beliefs which is again my point. there are just as many who say the opposite. the science is not far enough along to pinpoint, which is why choice which is also part of Gods plan. freedom to choose. that is Gods law.

If Ms. Hodges was such a close, personal friend, why wouldn't she take him to the hospital if she knew he was having "extreme chest pains?" That seems a little suspect... Can't say I'm too sad to see him, go, though... that bill outlawing miscarriages was the most disgusting case of ignorant chauvenism I've ever heard of. And criticizing tornado victims? What an arrogant, unfeeling bastard. He honestly sounds like he had some kind of psychotic mental disorder.